I’m also interested in how the poet’s political/religious beliefs relate to their portrayal of God/Christ as either bodily or more spiritual. Crashaw, who converted to Catholicism, uses very physical descriptions of the body of Christ, which contributes to the eroticism of the texts. The short “Blessed be the Paps which Thou has Sucked” ends with the strange line: “The Mother then must suck the Son” (4). This offers an somewhat erotically-charged representation of salvation through the body of both the Virgin Mary and the dying Christ. Crashaw’s conversion to Catholicism affected his imagery as he focuses more on the corporal representation of the divine.

Hi Sarah and Jae-Yeon,

I am also interested in the discussion of Christ and the homosocial bond Rambuss identifies. I think that in addition to what both of you are mentioning about the connection between Christ and embodiment, there is another element relating to the bonds between the people themselves. It seems to me that religion justifies atypical love bonds between couples that might not normally be sanctioned, for example, the love between the two missionary women. I would guess that mediating their love through a more sanctioned medium (God) allows for society to be more likely to accept these non-traditional loves.

Crashaw’s poem “On the Wounds of Our Crucified Lord” struck me for the descriptions of Christ’s body parts. The metaphors surrounding his wounds reminded me of the way poets liked to list the different body parts of their lover to compare them to other objects (blazon). I think an inspired technique is being used here, particularly in the second stanza.

In the various poems that we have read for this week’s theme, I’m intrigued by the different amounts of agency that the narrators have. In Donne’s Holy Sonnet 19, the speaker appears to have absolutely no control on how religion is “ravishing” his heart/soul to poems; in contrast, Herbert’s narrator is the one that is invited and chooses to feast upon Love. Yet another different approach is in Herrick’s Prayer to Ben Johnson, in which Herrick explicitly creates a new “saint” and seemingly mocks “old religion” (lines 3-4), denying God’s agency and choosing to craft a new path for himself. I understand that these poems represent the wide range of Christianity practiced in the Renaissance, but I am curious to see what links there are between the authors’ stances on agency and their ‘ political/particular religious beliefs (i. e. Herrick’s stance as a Royalist? Donne’s Catholic upbringing?).

Hi Sarah,

I agree with you about how Ramous seems to replace the woman in homosocial relationships with the figure of Christ; I think that ties nicely into our discussion about how Christ(/especially the Holy Spirit) was traditionally seen as more “feminine” than “masculine” — an object of desirability, regardless of Christ’s biological sex. As you suggested, I think this vision of Christ may have helped people to build a more concrete and physical relationship with religion, extending God into all realms of their life (vs. just spiritual).

In the Rambuss reading, I was struck by his discussion of same-sex relationships and friendships in this form of erotic, devotional poetry. In particular, I am interested the way that he uses Sedgwick’s theory of the homosocial to create a triangulated relationship between people and Christ. It seems that Rambuss is replacing the role traditionally filed by the woman in the triangulation with Christ. Does anyone have any thoughts as to the implications of doing so? Does this say something about the way that people envisioned Christ or perhaps having a more direct connection to religion and God?

Re Carly’s question as to whether Carew is being facetious in his last lines of “A Rapture,” I think he is and he isn’t. The notion of men being atheists and women being whores points out the severest ways that people’s honor, respective of their sex, can be smeared, as women’s chastity and men’s holiness (as we saw in Spenser) are their most valued virtues in the time period. With this idea in mind, Carew is being facetious in that his speaker knows that his religiosity and his lover’s chastity will both be compromised if he succeeds in seducing her, and she, far from not being called a whore, could easily be branded as one by a harsh, prudish society. At the same time, Carew is not being facetious because he is pointing out the most aggravating ways in which society frustrates his speaker and chafes against his lifestyle, as premarital or adulterous sex can quickly lead to one’s downfall, and how all this religious fervor might end up causing more harm than good.

When reading Crashaw’s poem, I was struck immediately by his rhetorical questions “Are they mouths? or are they eyes?” (2). Is Christ delivering us salvation by the word of God or is he watching and judging us? In light of the Richard Rambuss reading, I’m wondering about the relationship that the speaker has with Christ. He paints Christ’s wounds as “full-bloomed lips” and claims that Christ’s blood falls as tears, suggesting that Christ is weeping over the loss of a friend or lover (5, 8). Thus, the sexualizing (although I’m not sure I would call it erotic) images  heighten the original tension of the poem. On one hand, Christ’s wounds are beautiful lips that “hast laid / Many a kiss” and granted peace (10-11). On the other, Christ has a “bloodshot eye” that sheds “many a cruel tear” (7,8) reminding us of the pain he suffered.  Christ is a figure that both saves and comforts us, but whom we also owe a great deal of debt.

I’m trying to make sense of the last few lines of Carew’s “The Rapture.” Carew concludes the erotic/religious poem with: “Then tell me why/ This goblin Honor which the world adores/ Should make men atheists and not women whores” (164-166). Is he being earnest in claiming that Honor makes men atheists while not making women whores, or is this entirely facetious? Why might Honor be a goblin? Should women be whores? This is the first time I can recall the mention of atheism in the works we have read; typically we have looked at differing interpretations of Christianity. What might atheism’s role be in these conflicting factions of Christianity?

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